[phatty2x4]

Cassio and I were talking about utility buildings and how their planned implemenation is not going to work and we came up with an idea that would work much better.

Original idea:

Utility buildings would spawn when you took over a flag and belong to your team. They would only be usable by your team until someone either blew that building up or took over the flag.

The problem:

1. PCO's cause all kinds of issues and don't look very good compared to Static Meshes.

2. There really is no point in blowing up the building if you can just take over the flag.

The solution:

1. Each teams base will have a "flag"(there will not be multiple flags per team). Obviously we can make this something else, like a Trout, Oil barrel, etc. This gives incentive to actually go to the other base. It will also cause alot of fun chases as well.

2. Each teams base will have 3 "power" buildings that are destructible(instead of the utility buildings themselves being destructible.) Oil Cistern, Electrical Power Station and a Satellite Dish.

3. Each team will have it's own utility buildings strategically placed.

4. In order to disable the other teams utility buildings, you have to destroy certain "power" buildings.

For example: To disable their "vehicle repair station", you have to blowup their Oil Cistern and Electrical Power Station. In order to disable their Ammo Depot, you have to blowup their Satellite Dish and Electrical Power Station. If you can blow them all up, you'll disable all of their utility buildings. If you only blow one up, it doesn't do anything. Obviously there will be a respawn timer on each building, so it won't disable them for the entire game.

So that was my idea. Cassio liked it alot better than what we have going now and I thought I'd post it up here and get some feedback.

[princessugly]

What about instead of a respawn time you can repair them, similar to the asset system for 2142.

[Cassio]

@Princess
True that would be even better --> Send Skeeter to repair

What should be mentioned:
This change basicly removes the "battle" mode as we had it planned and extends the CTF Mode instead. Battle would remain some kind of team deathmatch like it was in IS76.

My main concern about the utility "ressources" is that it's not very intuitiv that you have to do one thing which has effects on a different thing, leading to a so called "Gulf of Execution".

What has to be considered too, is the change of the map layout shifting the gameplay focus to the bases instead of some point on the map.

[Fixx]

I definitely like the idea of repairing the power buildings instead of a timer. I also like that the utility buildings are at the teams respective bases. I also like the idea of a gamemode that has no repair or ammo stations or bases to capture, just constant death and destruction.

A few questions I have:
How would the scoring of the new system work?
What role does the flag play? (Is it the power structures or a CTF thing that gets returned to your base for points?)
Would there still be intermediate bases that can be spawned at when controlled?
Could the "gulf of execution" be bridged by putting instructions in the gamemode description?

What about keeping the battlemode as it stands with control points, no utilities, and stock BF2 scoring (especially for big maps like grand canyon). Adding a deathmatch mode which would be for smaller simpler maps and have no control points or utilities. Adding Phatty's CTF mode with flags, utilities, and power points with CTF and Utility destruction scoring. Of course racemode would still exist too.

[phatty2x4]

princessugly, on 24 November 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

What about instead of a respawn time you can repair them, similar to the asset system for 2142.

That's a great idea!

Cassio, on 24 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

@Princess
True that would be even better --> Send Skeeter to repair

What should be mentioned:
This change basicly removes the "battle" mode as we had it planned and extends the CTF Mode instead. Battle would remain some kind of team teathmatch like it was in IS76.

Correct.

Cassio, on 24 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

My main concern about the utility "ressources" is that it's not very intuitiv that you have to do one thing which has effects on a different thing, leading to a so called "Gulf of Execution".

I see what you mean. But at the same time, it makes the game more strategic instead of regular BF2 tickets + utilities.

Cassio, on 24 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

What has to be considered too, is the change of the map layout shifting the gameplay focus to the bases instead of some point on the map.

Yes, this will have to be taken into account.

I just thought of another idea while typing this up:

To get the flag, you'd have to destroy a wall/door in order to access it. Once you reach the flag, it'll open another door to let you out. Just a random idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

I definitely like the idea of repairing the power buildings instead of a timer. I also like that the utility buildings are at the teams respective bases. I also like the idea of a gamemode that has no repair or ammo stations or bases to capture, just constant death and destruction.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

A few questions I have:
How would the scoring of the new system work?

Regular kills between vehicles and pedestrians would remain the same. In addition to that you would receive points for blowing up "power" buildings and additional bonus points for blowing up the others. For example: I just blew up the "power grid", I get 30 points. If I blow up another "power" building before the "power grid" gets repaired, I get 30 points + 10 bonus points. If I blow all 3 up before any get repaired, I get 30 per building plus 30 bonus points(the points are just random off the top of my head, but it's just to give you an idea). This is just my idea, so please chime in on your thoughts.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

What role does the flag play? (Is it the power structures or a CTF thing that gets returned to your base for points?)

The flag will give the most points(lets say, 100?) if returned to your base. The main point of the flag is to force interaction between the teams and give the game another "goal" besides blowing each other up and blowing the buildings up. The power structures are there to provide "power" to the "utility buildings"(vehicle repair, vehicle ammo and player health). The idea I thought up is similar to Crysis' power struggle mode, but different at the same time.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Would there still be intermediate bases that can be spawned at when controlled?

No. This is the way it's setup now. Although, the utility buildings won't be at the main base, they will be strategically placed around the map but they won't be spawned.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Could the "gulf of execution" be bridged by putting instructions in the gamemode description?

Absolutely. I think this is a must.

Fixx, on 25 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

What about keeping the battlemode as it stands with control points, no utilities, and stock BF2 scoring (especially for big maps like grand canyon). Adding a deathmatch mode which would be for smaller simpler maps and have no control points or utilities. Adding Phatty's CTF mode with flags, utilities, and power points with CTF and Utility destruction scoring. Of course racemode would still exist too.

I have no problem with this. The more game modes, the better!

Please keep the ideas coming! And if I didn't explain very well, please let me know!

[princessugly]

phatty2x4, on 27 November 2011 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yes, this will have to be taken into account.

I just thought of another idea while typing this up:

To get the flag, you'd have to destroy a wall/door in order to access it. Once you reach the flag, it'll open another door to let you out. Just a random idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

O I just had a great idea. What if its similar to the titan system in 2142 where you have to destroy the 4 corridors before entering the main thing and taking the flag.

[Chael]

Okay I'm confused. So utility buildings that blow up are ugly, so we're going to have other buildings that blow up instead? Wouldn't those have the same problems as the current utilities?

I like the current system (aloa). The only change I'd like to make would be that when you destroy a utility the flag goes neutral. Oh and of course radar utilities, and the mondo as a health utility.

phatty2x4, on 27 November 2011 - 09:02 PM, said:

The more game modes, the better!

Careful with that thought. If you add too many game modes to a game it can be hard to find a server you want to play on. Just look at how many Karkand vehicle servers there are left in BF2.

princessugly, on 28 November 2011 - 05:57 AM, said:

O I just had a great idea. What if its similar to the titan system in 2142 where you have to destroy the 4 corridors before entering the main thing and taking the flag.

I hated that from 2142. I thought the teams would actually have to defend their titans, but instead they had force fields and barriers.

[phatty2x4]

Chael, on 28 November 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

Okay I'm confused. So utility buildings that blow up are ugly, so we're going to have other buildings that blow up instead? Wouldn't those have the same problems as the current utilities?

I personally don't care about the "ugly" part pertaining to the shadows, etc. But some others do. That's not the entire point of this new idea though, it's more of a gameplay one.

Chael, on 28 November 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

I like the current system (aloa). The only change I'd like to make would be that when you destroy a utility the flag goes neutral. Oh and of course radar utilities, and the mondo as a health utility.

I do too, but not everyone likes the current system.

The biggest complaints about the current implementation(in no particular order):

1. Utility Building(PCO) textures and shadows are sub-par, they could look alot better.

2. Utility buildings suddenly "appear" instead of always being there.

3. There's no point in blowing up the building if you can just take over the flag and vice versa

The whole point of this gamemode revamp is to improve the gameplay mechanics, get more interaction between players and improve the overall quality of the mod. This just an idea, so take it with a grain of salt. And remember, everyone has their own opinion!

[princessugly]

Chael, on 28 November 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

Okay I'm confused. So utility buildings that blow up are ugly, so we're going to have other buildings that blow up instead? Wouldn't those have the same problems as the current utilities?

I like the current system (aloa). The only change I'd like to make would be that when you destroy a utility the flag goes neutral. Oh and of course radar utilities, and the mondo as a health utility.



Careful with that thought. If you add too many game modes to a game it can be hard to find a server you want to play on. Just look at how many Karkand vehicle servers there are left in BF2.



I hated that from 2142. I thought the teams would actually have to defend their titans, but instead they had force fields and barriers.

Yes but do we have barriers and forcefields?

[Cassio]

Chael, on 28 November 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

Okay I'm confused. So utility buildings that blow up are ugly, so we're going to have other buildings that blow up instead? Wouldn't those have the same problems as the current utilities?

No, basically it would be the same as having team specific utilities(*) which don't change their owner! THAT is the issue causing problems at the current implementation.

The extension to that idea are the "resource" objects.

(*)destroyable staticmesh objects with lightmapped shadows

Titan-Idea:
Need to think about it, will post something later

[princessugly]

Well, not necessarily a titan, but checkpoints to get to the main goal.

[Chael]

@Princess: I just meant that in titan mode one guy can't sneak in and blow the reactor; there isn't enough C4 in one kit to do it. As long as it's not like that I'm cool with it.

@Cassio: Okay I get that. Gotta do some funny stuff with python to detect a destroyableObject being destroyed, but that should be no big deal.

I really do like the way it is now gameplay-wise; I don't care about the shadows. I'm pretty much okay with anything though.

[Cassio]

Doesn't the StrategicObject Component trigger such an event when destroyed? If so, that would help

[Chael]

I think it's only PCOs but I could be wrong. We can always just have a PCO be destroyed when a destroyableObject is destroyed.

[Cassio]

Going on here:

The returning of a flag adds 1 "ticket" to your teams account. 3-5 Tickets and you win. The carrier gets additional points.

As the uav radars are removed a utility having that ability would be needed too. (->satellite dish?)
However I want to allow "sneak attacks" against the enemy flag so a radar in the base wouldn't be very good. Any ideas?

[Fixx]

Cassio, on 15 January 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Going on here:

The returning of a flag adds 1 "ticket" to your teams account. 3-5 Tickets and you win. The carrier gets additional points.

As the uav radars are removed a utility having that ability would be needed too. (->satellite dish?)
However I want to allow "sneak attacks" against the enemy flag so a radar in the base wouldn't be very good. Any ideas?

How about a radar at a other base(s) in the middle (or anywhere far enough from the home bases) such that a team member must hold the base and report incoming attacks. The range of the radar could be just short of seeing the bases or perhaps at the edge of the range so that behind the base is not in range. A well designed map could have one or two tricky sneak attack routes (involving a jump or windy road or both) that would be not visible on the radar.